I discovered this very interesting debate on CNN.com today. I warn you now there were some harsh words uttered below, however Wan (Author of "Fat! So?") and Begala (Host), put up a good fight. For your reading pleasure...
(CNN) -- The case of a 240-pound California aerobics instructor has become the first to be settled under the city of San Francisco's "fat and short" law, which bans discrimination on the basis of weight and height.
Jennifer Portnick, 38, reached an agreement with dance-fitness giant Jazzercise Inc. to drop its requirement that its instructors must look fit.
Do size discrimination laws lead to frivolous lawsuits, or do they protect individual rights? "Crossfire" hosts Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson debate the issue with radio talk-show host Neal Boortz and "Fat! So?" author Marilyn Wann.
CARLSON: Now you know as well as I do that most people do Jazzercise and other sorts of jumping around in front of videotapes to get thin. Now you can see the problem if you own Jazzercise -- having a 240-pound instructor's a pretty bad advertisement for your product. It implies that it doesn't work. So can't you understand why they wouldn't want to hire a 240-pound instructor?
WANN: You know, I think the fitness industry is shooting itself in the foot by marketing thinness, rather than marketing fun. When I go to Jennifer's Portnick's class, I have fun. I feel great. I get healthy. My weight doesn't change. That's not my purpose. In fact, the latest numbers show that about 37 percent of Americans are doing no exercise. And I think if we welcomed people of all different sizes into exercise classes, they might come and have fun and get healthy. Would they get thin? I don't care. I really don't think the research supports that they would.
CARLSON: Well, that's an interesting point. And you know, I'm not pushing thinness on anybody either, but I also resent the idea of government pushing employees on companies that don't want them. I mean, shouldn't the Jazzercise company have a right to decide who it hires? If it doesn't want a fat Jazzercise instructor, shouldn't it be their choice not to hire one?
WANN: When people like Jennifer Portnick stand up for themselves, they're saying, "Judge me on my merits, not my measurements." And I think that's like any other civil rights issue. We want people of all different heights and weights and colors and descriptions to be able to contribute fully to our society. And if Americans are, some of us fat, and we're not able to contribute fully, we all suffer because of that. So I think it's a basic civil rights issue.
BEGALA: Mr. Boortz, I want you to pick up. Tucker said government shouldn't force companies to hire people they don't want to hire. Well, we have civil rights laws in this country. First off, let's agree with that. Do you support the laws that say you can't fire someone because of their race?
BOORTZ: Let's also agree that it is really demeaning to those people who have fought for true civil rights to have their fight compared to the fight of overweight megabar babes to be Jazzercise instructors.
BEGALA: Mr. Boortz, you support laws then, right? Do you support laws that say we will force companies to hire qualified people who are black. ...
BOORTZ: Oooh, Paul, you said qualified. This girl is not qualified.
BEGALA: You just won't tell me the answer. Just answer yes or no.
BOORTZ: Oh, I'm sorry, yes.
BEGALA: Do you support our civil rights laws?
BOORTZ: In some -- for some civil rights, yes. For honest civil rights, not the right to be a lard butt and lead an exercise class.
BEGALA: Well, I know you're talking about Rush Limbaugh now when you say that, who's another of your competitors.
BOORTZ: The man lost weight.
BEGALA: He didn't gain intelligence. Let me ask you. Why is weight different? If it is an immutable characteristic, right, something you can't change. For a whole lot of people, they really can't. They could work out like this woman did and still be overweight. Any more than she can change her waist, she can't really change her body type.
BOORTZ: Oh come on. Don't -- Paul, that is absolutely incorrect. It's in my genes. Well, obviously she has a lot in her jeans, but she can do something about it. She chooses not to.
BEGALA: What can she do?
BOORTZ: If you followed her through a grocery store, it would be white bread, frozen pizzas, Breyers ice cream, the whole bit. And then, let me ask you this. Let's say that you're running Clairol, and you want to hire a spokesperson for Clairol. And some woman walks in, and her face looks like it caught on fire and they put it out with a fork. She has a horrible complexion. Are you going to hire her to advertise your cosmetics?
CARLSON: OK, before Paul can answer that question, thereby torpedoing his own career here on CNN, Marilyn Wann, let me ask you a question. Now there are a lot of things I can't be that I'd like to be. I know I couldn't be a jockey. I can't be a basketball player. I can't be a sumo wrestler. I can't be a Playboy bunny -- not that I want to be -- but I can't be all those things because I'm not physically qualified, innately qualified to do them. I'm not suing anybody over it. It's just a fact. There are a lot of jobs that have physical qualifications. And Jazzercise instructor is one of them.
WANN: Absolutely. And Jazzercise has reiterated, I'm not speaking for them, but they do have a list of physical qualifications for this job. Fit appearance used to be a qualification. And now, they no longer choose to enforce it, thanks to Jennifer Portnick, because they realized it was an aesthetic choice, rather than a fitness choice. Now certainly, if you're hiring a model, you get to use aesthetic criteria. But for a job that only requires physical competency, again, judge us based on our merits, not our measurements.
CARLSON: Well, but wait a second.
WANN: Jennifer Portnick does six classes of aerobics a week, some of them back to back. She can lead an aerobics class. I take her class. It's great.
CARLSON: Well, leaving aside the Orwellian question of who ought to be deciding what you can and cannot do, my question is -- I mean, let's be honest here. Every Jazzercise instructor is, in essence, a model for the company. I mean, just, you know, just as every employee who interacts with the public is a model for his or her company, a Jazzercise instructor sells the product. People see an instructor -- a person has a marvelous body, etc., etc. I want that. I want to join Jazzercise. You know that that's true.
WANN: I think Jazzercise has a huge opportunity here to have all kinds of people represent them. Some people may want a very thin aerobics instructor, and they'll be drawn to that. Some people may want an aerobics instructor who inspires them because they look just like they do, average or above-average size. So by being inclusive and by having diversity in their instructors, they actually can appeal to far more people and make more money.
BEGALA: And Neal, not only is there good market reason to do it, but she's qualified. She had a certificate from the Aerobics and Fitness Association of America. As Marilyn said, she did six classes a week.
BOORTZ: Oh wow. And what sort of a SAT grade do you need to get into that school?
BEGALA: No, you need to jump around for an hour. And she's able to do that. That's the qualification.
I could use this space to voice my opinions about Tucker and Boortz, but instead I just want to say "HEAR, HEAR!" to San Francisco and their "fat and short" law! An entire city has recognized that there is an issue even higher than racism and that, my friends, is Size discrimination.
Wow, good article. Wann is our super-heroine once again!
Lard butt? Seriously?
I think that if the "fitness" industry really focused on fitness and not thiness, they'd make even more money than they do now. Then again, how many people really excercise to be fit?
Posted by: Colleen | October 12, 2004 at 12:56 PM
Tucker Carlson can eat it. Grrrrr.
Posted by: Jeanna | October 12, 2004 at 04:46 PM
The part about what she supposedly eats was the worst. What an idiot.
But, what do you mean by "higher than racism?" If you mean "more socially acceptable than racism," then I agree. But, racism has has the potential to affect people in ways that size discrimation seldom can. For instance, fat people are born and raised in all income and educational levels, and all ethnic groups. Though I know it's true that people in minority groups are also more likely to be fat, I believe that racism is more of a systemic problem that affects opportunity at many levels. There are no "fat ghettos" and there's no anti-intellectualism in the fat culture (to the extent that such a thing exists), fo example.
Posted by: Dee | October 13, 2004 at 10:00 PM
I think that (some) rich white people look down on fat people so much because they see it as a mark of low-income. Like, fat people can't afford healthy food and a personal trainer. I hope that makes sense. Anyway, I think sometimes size-ism and racism go hand in hand, to an extent.
Posted by: Colleen | October 13, 2004 at 10:37 PM
Which is odd, because that's precisely the reason why hefty used to be sexy and desirable. If you could afford to keep a heavy wife, it meant you were well off and a good provider.
Posted by: miri | October 13, 2004 at 11:38 PM
"Higher than Racism"
By no means was this an attempt to down play racism, but an attempt to see that size discrimination is becoming a more focused hate.
Granted no one (that I know of anyway) has been killed because they were fat. However, there are some interesting pieces to the puzzle.
Think of it this way.... FAT is the least racist thing on the planet. It's in all of us... people of the same background will discriminate against someone (of the same race) who is fat. That's why its higher... it lies inside the boundaries of skin color.
Posted by: Eckitis | October 14, 2004 at 07:23 AM
No matter what that guy asked the man kept trying to get around it, saying yes civil rights laws are good but but there is an exception.
if a company is allowed to keep fat people out who are perfectly able to do the job because the company has a right to hire whom they want they should be able to not hire handicapped people or old people or black people or whatever.
well we know the back lash that would cause in the community affected. but when it comes to fat the name of the game changes.
I find it appalling that it is okay to deny or critisize or judge a person strictly on how they look as far as their size. without backlash like there would be if a black person was discriminated against, there would be tons of news stories and lawyers sueing if a black person were treated the way fat people are.
and thinness doesn't equate with healthy, but one's dietary habits and exercise habits sure do regardless of size.
it is about appearances period not about health, that is a guise to justify hating fat and fat people.
you can bet if thinness were disgusting to people and fat was in they would come up with all kinds of health implications why thinness is deadly and thus justify hating thin people who we know could be fat if they truly wanted too.
too bad when it comes to weight issues reasoning and science go right out the door and is replaced with emotions that have no scienctific merit.
RR
Posted by: roberta robinson | October 20, 2004 at 03:48 PM
Colleen said: "I think sometimes size-ism and racism go hand in hand, to an extent."
As an overweight African-American woman, I'm here to tell you that yes, they often do go hand in hand.
Posted by: Glib Gurl | October 21, 2004 at 12:19 AM